Ariel Pink ‘was at Capitol to show support for Trump’ as he and John Maus criticised for attending riot

[wowiezowie]

It seems like he's finally given the media the ammunition they've been waiting for. I've never seen anyone so wilfully destroy their own career like this. Did he really think he could continue to say what he's said in interviews and for it not to eventually come back and bite him on the ass? His private social and public media behaviour have finally caught up with him. I'm just shocked that a guy his age wouldn't realize the consequences of his actions. Then again I don't really think he's ever really lived in the real world. We'll always have his music though, you just have to separate that from the person I guess.

[mrnashville]

Yeah, the original plan was to just stop listening to him and Maus altogether. That’s pretty unrealistic though and I’ve found that by trying to not listen to them, I only want to listen to them even more now! I’ve always know Ariel was sort of an asshole and I can live with that, but I guess what makes it more difficult to respect him now is that I feel like he’s turned into a straight up idiot. I don’t know if the drug use over the years has fucked up his brain or if he’s always been this way but better at hiding it? I mean, even if he supported Trump for fucked up and selfish reasons but still had a more eloquent way of expressing his opinion... Now he just sounds like a junkie who has lost so many brain cells that he can’t even finish a simple sentence.

Do y’all think the other reissues are still going to come out on the 29th? They are still up for pre-order. Was originally planning on buying, but now I’m just going to JDownload the shit out of them when they pop up. I’m not going to throw money at someone who is just going to turn around and donate to shitheads like Trump and buy a bunch of drugs.

[AppTrans]

think about it: Ariel's rally attendance was the zenith of his "fame"
the dude made good music, no question

[Gibby]

it's a dangerous game making assholish controvery your major source of notoriety. for every Trump there's 1000 Milos, in a way worse position than before, in a shitspiral of negativity and doubling down on said negativity. he might pick up a few thousand listens and some downloads but in 5 years are those people gonna be there? interesting to find out!

(i actually don't think he'll lose too many fans, weirdly)

[AppTrans]

yah
longtime fans will still care about them to a certain degree.

[Gibby]

yeah. i have no idea how it will affect me. one thing i can say is that with pinegrove and brand new and pwr bttm - you can go elsewhere for that sound, somewhere less problematic. ariel, for better or worse, is a singular artist.

[Viewbob]

This thread reads like an anime script.

[eatandoph]

Appreciate Gibby's and others' comments above. I've been processing this since the news was out. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the Tucker Carlson interview.

think about it: Ariel's rally attendance was the zenith of his "fame"
the dude made good music, no question

Something that really struck me in the liner notes for one of the reissues was AP's declaration that the thing he expected to be best remembered for was the lawsuit that befell his CalArts project. For all I know, he could be right about this—the court case established a legal precedent that lawyers might cite generations from now, when his music may be forgotten. But it seems like a destructive way of looking at his own achievements.

As egotistical as he can sometimes be, he seems to have this deep sense that his music isn't really important in the face of the broader media-Internet-politics spectacle. And it makes sense that he would think this, given that recorded music revenues have been in decline for most of his career, and music starts to seem more and more like a lifestyle accessory and less and less like something you revere. At least, it looks that way to me, so I wouldn't be surprised if it looks that way to him (I'm the same age as AP). Of course, many other artists have handled this reality much better than he has. But he makes music in thrall to an era when what you listened to really seemed to define who you are, and when exploitative rock 'n' roll behavior like his was given more of a pass: rock stars were royalty or divine figures; Ariel often looks a bit the prince. He both exhibits self-loathing and wishes he were better loved or taken more seriously.

None of this is really to justify his behavior, more to attempt to understand his mindset and the peculiar appeal of the music it produces.... I listened to Before Today a few days after Jan. 6, and all the things that make AP an embarrassing public figure—the misogyny, misanthropy, transphobia, obscurantism, hiding, etc.—are audible in it. They always were. I still enjoyed it! I've tended to think expression can be more important than ethics in art, while believing the reverse in politics. But the separation between art and politics doesn't hold.

A contrarian structure of resentment feeds much if not all of what AP does. In general I think this stance becomes less palatable to other people as you age, because you're supposed to learn to accept that other people have needs too, and make compromises. Declining health means you have to make compromises with your own body, which is hard enough. But if there's a political figurehead who makes it seem like you shouldn't ever have to compromise, even if it means blindly following said leader (as in "Time to Live"), it might inspire a kind of nihilistic hope.

To the credit of his torpor, at least AP took a nap instead of marching to the Capitol.

[guccigraffiti]

how many gen x losers does it take to screw in a lightbulb

[figure8]

Not sure how great something like this is gonna look for my first post, and I know a few others have echoed the sentiment here... but it's a bit of a blow to see the Ariel forum gone. I just got into AP shortly before all this controversy went down, and yeah, he's a totally shitty person, no doubt. Not trying to defend him in any way. But I'm saddened that I'll never be able to read up on all the info from that forum that's likely not documented anywhere else. It's real rough discovering Ariel's true colors, but I still love his music. I hope someday the Ariel forum can come back, maybe in a read-only mode or something.

[Gibby]

I get it. Who needs the headache? I lost the link for the Rariel Pink GDrive but maybe the real Ariel Pink rarities were the friends I made along the way?

[Viewbob]

Well if it makes you feel any better, figure8, as far as I know it's only set to hidden right now (granted, I'm not really an admin admin and was only deputized to fight spam, so I'm not really in on these things).
I do quite like the idea of it being set to read-only as a compromise for history's sake (although perhaps it's a blessing in disguise to have all my 14-year old posts deleted, haha!). I'm very disappointed in all of this fuss about Ariel's politics not because I want to pretend it doesn't exist, but I think by making it such a big deal, everyone's giving him more power over themselves than he deserves. I'm much happier keeping Ariel's politics as the ramblings of some crazy artist who makes great music. There's a reason they say "never meet your heroes". And here's something REALLY crazy: I don't see Ariel being a moron as nullifying the good he's taught me either. When I found his music, it taught me about being myself and all that sappy BS, but I was really touched by the fact that he's not a retro act. Ariel makes music influenced by the past, sure, but it's never a throwback. Ariel's living in the present, but making the life he wants of it. I don't see Ariel supporting the capitol coup as nullifying that. Suda51 once said something like "The story of my games is actually the least important part. What happens in the story, a list of plot points, that's not nearly as important as how those moments make you feel. What they say to you". Music is a similar way to me. The South Park episode where they tell George Lucas that his films are our property just as much as his comes to mind as well.

As for other people being dicks and following Ariel, I'm going to repurpose an old Cybershell quote here. He's talking about how silly it is that people let Furries 'ruin' Sonic the Hedgehog for them; "if you really can't enjoy something that people jack off to, then I've got some bad news for you buddy. There's probably someone jacking off to the Mona Lisa right now". There will always be terrible people who love the same things as you. It's downright silly to let that ruin it for you, and you certainly shouldn't let them define what it means for you to be a fan of that thing. I see some people say that being an Ariel fan now means being a terrible conservative, but why does it have to? Are we really gonna let these people change what Ariel's music means to us?? I don't wanna let every racist facebook uncle who's going to support Ariel out of politics win like that.

Also, forgive me for my lack of sympathy to this board's feelings, but I'm a bit disillusioned with the people here right now. I find it very ingenuine how you all complain of the intolerance in Ariel's community, yet seem perfectly fine not listening to arguments opposing your own. I just have to wonder if you're all creating the monsters you fight against. Hell, my own Discord server has been the same way lately, I'm fucking sick of everyone speaking in very similar terms of "free speech" and "tolerance", but really only meaning "free speech for my side only".

[possiblegrenade]

He is free to speak and I am free to support him or not. A free market means that if someone is revealed to be or reveals their self to be a shitty person, I don't have to buy their stuff. That's cancel culture. "Case closed."

And I listen to opposing arguments. I listened to those recent interviews in their entirety.

[mrnashville]

Well if it makes you feel any better, figure8, as far as I know it's only set to hidden right now (granted, I'm not really an admin admin and was only deputized to fight spam, so I'm not really in on these things).
I do quite like the idea of it being set to read-only as a compromise for history's sake (although perhaps it's a blessing in disguise to have all my 14-year old posts deleted, haha!). I'm very disappointed in all of this fuss about Ariel's politics not because I want to pretend it doesn't exist, but I think by making it such a big deal, everyone's giving him more power over themselves than he deserves. I'm much happier keeping Ariel's politics as the ramblings of some crazy artist who makes great music. There's a reason they say "never meet your heroes". And here's something REALLY crazy: I don't see Ariel being a moron as nullifying the good he's taught me either. When I found his music, it taught me about being myself and all that sappy BS, but I was really touched by the fact that he's not a retro act. Ariel makes music influenced by the past, sure, but it's never a throwback. Ariel's living in the present, but making the life he wants of it. I don't see Ariel supporting the capitol coup as nullifying that. Suda51 once said something like "The story of my games is actually the least important part. What happens in the story, a list of plot points, that's not nearly as important as how those moments make you feel. What they say to you". Music is a similar way to me. The South Park episode where they tell George Lucas that his films are our property just as much as his comes to mind as well.

As for other people being dicks and following Ariel, I'm going to repurpose an old Cybershell quote here. He's talking about how silly it is that people let Furries 'ruin' Sonic the Hedgehog for them; "if you really can't enjoy something that people jack off to, then I've got some bad news for you buddy. There's probably someone jacking off to the Mona Lisa right now". There will always be terrible people who love the same things as you. It's downright silly to let that ruin it for you, and you certainly shouldn't let them define what it means for you to be a fan of that thing. I see some people say that being an Ariel fan now means being a terrible conservative, but why does it have to? Are we really gonna let these people change what Ariel's music means to us?? I don't wanna let every racist facebook uncle who's going to support Ariel out of politics win like that.

Also, forgive me for my lack of sympathy to this board's feelings, but I'm a bit disillusioned with the people here right now. I find it very ingenuine how you all complain of the intolerance in Ariel's community, yet seem perfectly fine not listening to arguments opposing your own. I just have to wonder if you're all creating the monsters you fight against. Hell, my own Discord server has been the same way lately, I'm fucking sick of everyone speaking in very similar terms of "free speech" and "tolerance", but really only meaning "free speech for my side only".

Im with you. At first I was angry, fuck these guys, I’ve been tricked, etc... But I’m actually listening to Ariel now and wondering why the hell I “cancelled” him in the first place? His politics are shitty and disappointing, but I have family members and people I work with everyday who have similar views and I’m able to disagree but ultimately still love them. Definitely not going to buy any of his shit if there’s a chance that money is going to go towards the GOP but also not going to go burn all my Ariel records.

[16oh7]

People are allowed to feel disillusioned. It's not an issue of free speech - he's entitled to his incoherent beliefs. Nobody is saying he should be imprisoned for it, but people can also feel that he shouldn't have a huge public platform when he's clearly very unwell and espousing conspiracy theories. Free speech doesn't mean everyone is free of private consequences. The response here has been pretty even-handed in recognizing that this musician that created a body of work that changed our lives is also not a person we feel comfortable appreciating or associating with at this time. If you're comfortable with it, that's great, it's a personal decision either way. Enjoy the music, it's fine.

For what it's worth, I think the whole situation and what Ariel has become is deeply embarrassing and sad, and I think most here agree. It's not as big a problem as the stories of sexual assault - that is genuinely indefensible and is what has stopped me from enjoying his music for the last few years. If you can separate his music from that (including the explicitly sexual interludes in some of the lo-fi stuff), more power to you. I can't, it sounds like a lot of others here also can't, and that's a valid response.

No idea what you're talking about with the reference points to South Park and Sonic the Hedgehog or whatever, but let people process this individually. His art means a lot to all of us. People aren't disgusted because some conservatives might listen to Before Today. Some of his music (for me, The Doldrums in particular) is some of the most compelling and exciting I've ever heard. Feel free to keep listening, but we're not "creating the monsters we fight against" by dropping the whole thing and feeling disappointed that the guy is a conservative sex pest.